Gregory G. Allen: You’ve Got To Be Taught

BY  |  Monday, Sep 26, 2011 10:30am  |  COMMENTS (70)

Photo by Tom Schopper

I don’t want to take on an entire campaign (and I can admit a year ago I even blogged with my own story of how ‘it got better’), but I can’t help but wonder if we are sending the correct message to the youth who are being bullied and feel so alone. Think back to when you were that age. Life was not about the future. It was the here and now. Everything felt intense — no matter the size of the issue. If parents told you things would be better later, did you want to hear that or did you want the problem fixed then?

I think it is great to remind youth that it will eventually get better down the road, but I really believe we need to be helping them in the present. How do they deal with those feelings of being different? Who can they talk to? What tools are there to cope with it? I applaud the groups taking on the bullies head on. That must be addressed. I agree with the organizations and states attempting to make laws against bullying (a hate crime). But if only we could get to these kids while they are in the depth of their despair and somehow encourage them to know they are special and wanted and loved.

But does all of society feel that way?

I’m going to say – no. They don’t. They want to be able to tell someone “you are wrong for being gay” – but that opposition turns into verbal abuse and for a child, it is very hard to take. These bullies are being taught to BE bullies. They hear the loud voices of people that scream about sin and disgust and take it to the next level of slurs and violence.

The musical South Pacific had an amazing song that was so true when it was written so many decades ago: and yet still true today.

You’ve got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You’ve got to be taught
From year to year,
It’s got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You’ve got to be carefully taught.

You’ve got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff’rent shade,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.

You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You’ve got to be carefully taught!

Tell the children it will get better — but educate yourselves and them to learn now. See what groups are planning events near you and take your own children to hear the message. Garden State Equality presents a Week of Respect Kick-Off event on Saturday, October 1 from 11 to 1 at John H. Walker Middle School in Nutley, NJ. Call 973-509-5428 for more information.

Gregory G. Allen is the Managing Director of the Westminster Arts Center at Bloomfield College and blogs about weight loss, the arts, and other random antics here. He is also the author of “Proud Pants: An Unconventional Memoir” and “Well With My Soul.”

70 Comments

  1. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  September 26, 2011 @ 10:50 am

    Will there be a session on bullying and discrimination against republicans and conservatives on college campuses?

  2. POSTED BY Iceman  |  September 26, 2011 @ 11:18 am

    Wow, Herb, I was just going on to make that same post. Thanks. For instance, Madam Barista posted on Facebook that she would like to live anywhere that doesn’t have Tea Party Republicans….a stereotypical insult.

    Where is the tolerance and respect that is exercised by Dems?

  3. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  September 26, 2011 @ 11:25 am

    Tolerance only exists when you agree with them.

    Also very narrow minded to think that Tea Party supporters are only Republicans.

  4. POSTED BY Mrs Martta  |  September 26, 2011 @ 11:40 am

    Yes, it’s also a misconception that the Tea Party consists only of middle-age, uneducated, white men. Nothing could be further from the truth. While I don’t align myself with the Tea Party (I am leaning more towards Libertarianism these days), I respect the fact that the Tea Party illustrates that there are people who are not happy with the status quo. You can call them anything you want but you can’t call them apathetic.

  5. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  September 26, 2011 @ 11:43 am

    You guys are funny. There are kids who have committed suicide because of this. Next time a Republican kills himself because a Democrat didn’t agree with him, let us know. I’m sure it’ll be big news.

  6. POSTED BY johnqp  |  September 26, 2011 @ 11:48 am

    So help us out here …what exactly does the Tea Party stand for ?

  7. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  September 26, 2011 @ 11:49 am

    Jg, kids have committed suicide due to ALL sorts of bullying , not just when it comes to being gay.

  8. POSTED BY Mrs Martta  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:04 pm

    Johnqp:

    From Wikipedia:

    “It endorses reduced government spending, opposition to taxation in varying degrees,reduction of the national debt and federal budget deficit, and adherence to an originalist interpretation of the United States Constitution.”

    That’s the gist of it. I don’t align myself with them (people like Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Dick Armey, for example) because I find some of their viewpoints hypocritical, such as their views on gay marriage, abortion, religious beliefs, etc. On the one hand, they say they want government to butt out, but on the other, they say it’s OK for government to intervene in certain situations that, in my opinion, they have no right to do so. They’re trying to have it both ways–it doesn’t work.

  9. POSTED BY johnqp  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:11 pm

    I don’t buy it for one second …where were these “patriots” when Bush, Delay and Co blew a massive hole in our national treasure ?

  10. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:14 pm

    More “liberals have double standards and we republicans are patriotic martyrs”
    Yup, the same stuff from herb and Ice.
    Second verse, same as the first. “Woe is me”, in stereo.

  11. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:16 pm

    Very “narrow-minded” to think that Tea Partiers are only Republicans?

    Are you serious?

    the most recent Gallup poll has 79% of Tea Partiers identifying themselves as either moderate or conservative Republicans. The leadership, such as it is, is exclusively Republican. Those who do not describe themselves as the rather vague “libertarinists” are, to a man and a woman, Republicans. To claim otherwise is ridiculous.

    No serious person could argue that college campuses are places where liberals and left leaners are the majority, at least among liberal arts faculty. But nowhere have I seen evidence to support the view that most students are, nor is there any evidence of any “brainwashing” or indoctrination.

    This piece gives a nice sampling. Herb, don’t be scared of the link just because it has the word “intellectual” in the address!

    https://chronicle.com/article/Intellectual-Diversity/48799/

  12. POSTED BY Mrs Martta  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:17 pm

    There wasn’t an offical “Tea Party” formed until 2009 but there WERE a lot of folks disgusted and disillusioned with the state of the Republican Party then and now. Tea Partiers have said over and over that one of the reasons they came together was a common dislike of what the Republican Party had become: A lot of RINOS–Republicans in Name Only.

  13. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:17 pm

    Ooops! Argue AGAINST the fact that college campuses are places, etc..

  14. POSTED BY scottie  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:20 pm

    they were at a different kids of party. Oh sorry, he said he kicked that habit.

    Back on topic, like everything else, it all starts at home, and the sooner the better.

    Was so proud this AM when driving past a store with wedding dresses in the window as my 4 year old girl said: sometimes girls marry boys, sometimes girls marry girls, sometimes boys marry boys. Not sure where she got it from, but I went with it.

  15. POSTED BY yougottalovehim  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:23 pm

    I detest people who turn every damm thing into some political rant. I thought the comments to this might be from parents of school kids weighing in on anti-bullying strategies. Instead its the same 6 or 7 idiots who troll these boards all day and all night trying to make witty, cutting political points. Usuallly to show that, yes, white republicans suffer horrible bullying too.

    Thankfully in real life I can avoid all you guys. And I do.

  16. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:27 pm

    I detest people who detest people they’ve never met.

    I try to avoid them in real and in cyber life, except when they inject themselves into discussions they claim to abhor.

  17. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:29 pm

    Maybe you don’t.

  18. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:31 pm

    The Tea Party is just another way for rich and powerful interests to tap into fear. However it may have started, it’s now a pretty good tool to keep the conversation focused on the extreme right so that even a traditional conservative will appear to be centrist. It’s very radical to have a so many people campaigning to run on a major party ticket who are just so kooky. And sorry, Herb, I know how you feel about science, but we really need to have leaders who believe teaching science and math are critical to the future of the country.

  19. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:31 pm

    I detest detesters that detest detesters when they are detesting.

  20. POSTED BY walleroo  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:34 pm

    When I read this guy I feel like I’ve joined a conversation in the middle and can’t for the life of me figure out what people are talking about.

  21. POSTED BY caterwaul80  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:39 pm

    This issue has everything to do with our society, culture, and media, and parents that pass on bad behaviors and attitudes to their children. Of course kids learn from other kids as well. As long as the mass media and big business favor a certain type/look, those who don’t fit that description are always going to be viewed as of less deserving of respect and/or attention. The further you are from the ‘ideal’ portrait of what a person should look like, the less likely you fit into mass appeal.

    I know it’s also not black and white. Some people have a way of taking their differences and making it into something unique and interesting, something people like… but I believe that is a small minority.

    This whole ‘anti bullying’ campaign is really missing the point. It’s a quick fix to a larger problem with our society as a whole.

  22. POSTED BY Mrs Martta  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:40 pm

    What do you folks–both liberals and conservatives–think about Herman Cain? He’s being treated like the wallflower at the dance right now but I think he meakes the most sense of ANY of the Republican candidates, at least from an economic standpoint.

  23. POSTED BY kit schackner  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:43 pm

    Dealing with bullying kids in school is a complicated issue. You have some parents who, when told their children are bullies, deny the possibility, saying they know their kids and their kids are not mean. Then you have some perpetually bullied kids whose behaviors often invite their own victimization.

    Two basics come to mind: adults should never turn the other cheek when observing bullying, and basic courtesy should be taught. You can’t force one kid to like another. You can, however, force them to be courteous. The problem for the schools is that so many parents don’t practice basic courtesy, never mind the kids!

  24. POSTED BY caterwaul80  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:50 pm

    BTW how the hell did this turn into a Tea Party issue? lol. People on both sides are guilty of making broad sweeping generalizations. I’ve been guilty of it too. We need to stop pretending that we know what’s best for everyone else.

  25. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:51 pm

    I love when Cain says “999”. I give him credit that he actually put a plan on the table and explains it (agree with him or not). The problem is the networks (Fox included) have already determined who the front runners are by placing Mitt and Perry center stage and giving them the bulk of questions. The other night I think there was over 35 minutes between Ron Pauls opportunity to talk. Meanwhile, he is polling well as is Cain who is starting to pick up steam winning the Florida straw poll along with Santorum but these candidates will never get a shot in these ‘debates’.

  26. POSTED BY Mrs Martta  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:55 pm

    I agree…That’s why I referred to him as the “wallflower,” he’s always in the background, waiting to be given a chance to prove himself. Too much focus on Romney and Perry, agreed. Everyone should be given equal time to express their views.

  27. POSTED BY fraublucher  |  September 26, 2011 @ 12:58 pm

    So now the big question. Who has better hair – Romney or Perry?

  28. POSTED BY Iceman  |  September 26, 2011 @ 2:23 pm

    from JG…The Tea Party is just another way for rich and powerful interests to tap into fear. ” Our President has come out today and said that if a Republican wins the Presidency it will cripple the nation…isn’t that an extreme example of fear mongering?

    And like Mrs Martta…Michele and Sarah scare the hell out of me. Those 2 don’t have a shred of intellect that could be braided together to form a rock. The Tea Party loves those 2 and that scares me.

  29. POSTED BY scottie  |  September 26, 2011 @ 2:47 pm

    Is he related to Herb Cain?

  30. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  September 26, 2011 @ 3:05 pm

    The old hockey player?

  31. POSTED BY Mrs Martta  |  September 26, 2011 @ 3:09 pm

    Cripple the nation? The nation is already wheelchair-bound! How much more crippled can it get?

  32. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  September 26, 2011 @ 3:10 pm

    What the president said is that the GOP vision of america is an approach that would fundamentally cripple the nation.

    Maybe you can explain to me, Ice, how that differs from Republicans who have been talking about “taking the country back” and who have stated time and time again that the president wants to destroy america, refashion America, change the America that “we” knew, etc. etc. etc.?

  33. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  September 26, 2011 @ 3:23 pm

    And to continue with Cro’s posting, because it’s precisely those policies that have already crippled us. Cutting taxes and deregulating businesses is not going to help.

  34. POSTED BY johnqp  |  September 26, 2011 @ 3:29 pm

    Herman Cain ?? Isn’t he on record as saying that he would not appoint any Muslims to cabinet posts or judgeships ?

    Sounds like a bigot to me.

  35. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  September 26, 2011 @ 3:30 pm

    “Cutting taxes and deregulating businesses is not going to help.”

    Right, over regulation, high taxation and strangling businesses so they move operations overseas will.

    Whew Thank God your not running.

  36. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  September 26, 2011 @ 3:36 pm

    Well, Herb, you just keep believing that corporate America has our best interests at heart. And climate change is a hoax perpetrated on the world by the world’s scientists and that evolution is just a theory. We really have hit the dark ages in this country.

  37. POSTED BY mike 91  |  September 26, 2011 @ 3:47 pm

    Right, over regulation, high taxation and strangling businesses so they move operations overseas will.

    Corporate profits are at an all-time high. But maybe, just maybe, if we let them have everything they want, they might hire a few of us, right? Screw them. The right really has people believing that if only the “job creators” could be left alone, everything would be fine and dandy. Well, we’ve had the Bush tax cuts in place for 10 years now. What has it gotten us? An empty treasury and the highest income disparity in the civilized world. But somehow, its those darn illegal immigrants and people too poor to owe anything in taxes that are the problem. Go look up how far down the ladder you have to be to not owe the government any income taxes.

  38. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  September 26, 2011 @ 3:55 pm

    Again, it’s remarkable how good a job corporate interests have done at controlling the dialogue in the country. If only businesses could do whatever they want they’d hire people. If only taxes were lower the “job creators” would create jobs and we’d be out of this mess.

    What’s happened, in a nutshell, is that the middle class and the working poor no longer have the same buying power. Less demand, fewer jobs. It’s not that complicated. We’re becoming a two class society and the wealthiest and most powerful industries and their lobbyists have bought our elected officials and control our media outlets. And this is where we are.

  39. POSTED BY Mrs Martta  |  September 26, 2011 @ 4:51 pm

    Well then WHO exactly will be providing/creating jobs? The government? Puleeze. The government should not be in the business of creating jobs. What they SHOULD be doing is providing an environment where businesses can thrive and prosper. They should not be creating obstacles, i.e. higher taxes and over-regualtion. Of course businesses are sending jobs overseas! Can you blame them if it’s cheaper and less of a PITA to do business there than here?

  40. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  September 26, 2011 @ 5:10 pm

    Businesses add jobs when the demand for whatever they are selling outpaces their ability to meet that demand with the current staff. They don’t hire because they pay lower taxes or have greater profits or less regulation. And if and where possible, they will continue to outsource cheap labor. In order to stay ahead, we’ll need better educated workforce and a middle and working class population with buying power.

  41. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  September 26, 2011 @ 5:25 pm

    Imagine a country with very limited regulations on businesses? No thanks herb.

    Some laws are here to protect citizens like you and me from greedy SOB’s. And if we get sick from their sludge, and since you don’t want Obamacare, you’re on yer own. Don’t look at those tumors on your face when you shave in the morning.

    Care for a rat or a human finger in that spam you’re having for dinner tonite? I didn’t think so.

    Maybe you like that stench that we all enjoy when the Passaic River is at low tide.
    That’s not bird shit. It’s crap from some factory somewhere. But hey, those patriots create jobs.

  42. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  September 26, 2011 @ 5:33 pm

    Actually, MM, the gubmint does create jobs. And really important ones, too.
    Imagine a country with no cops, firefighters, coast guard, army, navy, airforce, marines, park rangers, judges, bailiffs, teachers, Army Corps of Engineers, border patrols, and so on. That’s lots of jobs. Think of the savings ! Let’s slash’em !
    We must say NO to gubmint jobs. Right?

  43. POSTED BY Mrs Martta  |  September 26, 2011 @ 10:37 pm

    Uh, Spiro…not everyone is cut out to be a police officer, firefighter, or member of the Coast Guard, Army, Navy, etc. While it’s great that these jobs exist, we need more jobs in the corporate sector. Where are they? I thought so.

  44. POSTED BY scottie  |  September 26, 2011 @ 11:13 pm

    MM, worth repeating, jobs are created where demand outpaces current output. You will not see jobs created for any other reason out of the corporate sector, and rightly so.

    And don’t kid yourself, while it may be cheaper long-scale, very long-term, to send jobs overseas, it certainly is NOT less of a PITA. Not only is our government efficient in some regards, it doesn’t discriminate, a very harsh reality in the countries we are sending jobs to. Try it yourself, ain’t easy to do.

  45. POSTED BY johnqp  |  September 27, 2011 @ 12:24 am

    “While it’s great that these jobs exist, we need more jobs in the corporate sector. Where are they? I thought so.”

    How naive. Sure, make the business climate more friendly – we are pretty much on the cusp of corporate welfare in this country in case you have not noticed.

  46. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  September 27, 2011 @ 7:24 am

    The business climate here is actually beyond friendly. While the tax rate on paper may seem high compared to other countries, the amount actually collected from corporations here is somewhere around zero to low when you throw in the loopholes. Oil companies are making record profits yet we’re still subsidizing their research. And one more time – they are controlling the dialogue so the naive and fearful think it’s because taxes are high that we’re in an economic slump. And that regulations are too tight – wanna take a look at how the banks have changed the way they do business after 2008? Nothing has changed other than the fact that oil, pharma, banking and insurance have hijacked the political discourse.

    And NO ONE hires because they have extra cash or capital on hand. They hire because they need more workers to sell more stuff. Simplistic, but true. Without a strong MARKETPLACE the economy will not recover.

  47. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  September 27, 2011 @ 7:28 am

    With the exception of the military and local law enforcement , I don’t want a bunch of politicians and bureaucrats creating regulations to protect me…I do fine by myself. It’s sad thatyou need big brother to watch over you and protect you from the meanies.

    Hey Spiro, this bumbling fool is at it again. This time maybe is true feeling are shown. He’s in way over his head an unraveling quickly.

    https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/09/obama-congressional-black-caucus-video-gaffe.html

  48. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  September 27, 2011 @ 8:43 am

    It’s gonna be sad seeing all of you banned for highjacking this discussion.

    Remember: The very first guideline under the rarely followed and selectively enforced, Baristanet Comment Policy says:

    “Don’t change the subject– comments are open on a specific blog post to generate discussion about that topic.”

    Here, Mr. Allen wrote about bullying, but the conversation went off topic very early to something rarely seen here: politics.

    Oh well. So long as no one was “mean” to Mr. Allen, I guess it’s okay.

  49. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  September 27, 2011 @ 10:13 am

    herb,with regard to the lifting of regulations, you trust your fellow polluter more than I do. I’ll stick with government regulation, thanks, even if it means more taxes. I’d rather pay now with my wallet than down the road with a diminished quality of life, when no amount of money can fix what’s been ruined beyond repair. But maybe a swim in the Passaic River might change my mind. On second though, probably not.

  50. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  September 27, 2011 @ 10:39 am

    I’m with you, herb.

    I don’t need the FDA making sure that drugs are safe. I don’t need the Depratment of Agriculture making sure that foods are safe. I don’t need OHSA to make certain that workplaces are safe. I don’t need the government making sure that mines are operated in a safe manner.

    Who needs the FAA to enforce safety regulations for air traffic? Why does the Coast Guard have to harass shippers to see if discharge is dumped into harbors and rivers and lakes? Federal highways? Who needs ’em?

    Stuff their regulations! Like you, I’ll take care of myself!

  51. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  September 27, 2011 @ 10:57 am

    herb is a fool if he thinks he would get on a plane with any FAA regulations or drive on a road without any traffic laws or eat food or drink water that doesn’t comply with minimum standards for safety and on an on and on. i think we should send him on a trip to a 3rd world country with fewer regulations and see what he eats and how he gets around. maybe pakistan? or somalia? even thailand would probably scare the pants off him.

  52. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  September 27, 2011 @ 11:00 am

    Meant to say “withOUT’ FAA regulations.

  53. POSTED BY agideon  |  September 27, 2011 @ 11:21 am

    I find it tough to believe that there can be a conversation about government regulation w/o mention of the proximate cause of our current economy: the reduction of regulation of the financial industry during the Bush and Clinton administrations, and the lax enforcement of what little was left during the Bush administration.

    Comments about the need for the FAA, FDA and such are accurate, but we’re arguing about the state of the economy precisely because of an economy caused by under-regulation.

    Companies are capital-aggregating and profit-generating engines. That’s fine, in the sense that this is their intended purpose. However, there’s nothing in their design which enforces protection of the environment, the economy, or any other shared resource. Those represent a straightforward example of a “tragedy of the commons”.

    Government regulation serves as the counterweight, acting for the benefit of the citizenry by protecting the commons.

    Over recent decades, that protection was pulled back. We’ve seen the result. That one can conclude that *less* regulation would be required as a response is puzzling.

    …Andrew

  54. POSTED BY agideon  |  September 27, 2011 @ 11:31 am

    Any discussion of the tea party should include a reference to https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/opinion/crashing-the-tea-party.html

    This is especially so when we came to the topic by way of a conversation on bullying. Note that tea party members “were disproportionately social conservatives in 2006 — opposing abortion, for example — and still are today.” More: “Next to being a Republican, the strongest predictor of being a Tea Party supporter today was a desire, back in 2006, to see religion play a prominent role in politics.”

    There would appear therefore to be a connection between the tea party and the pressure to conform to religious norms. Magnified through the immaturity of children, and we see bullying of the “different” – which includes differences of religion, appearance, sexuality, etc.

    So the question becomes a simple and old one: How tolerant are we supposed to be of intolerance?

    …Andrew

  55. POSTED BY deadeye  |  September 27, 2011 @ 11:38 am

    Andrew, Respectfully, it serves no purpose to reflexively begin an orgy of regulation because perhaps some level of regulation arguably could have benefitted in a specific area. Your argument above is somewhat simplistic.

  56. POSTED BY agideon  |  September 27, 2011 @ 11:56 am

    “Respectfully, it serves no purpose to reflexively begin an orgy of regulation because perhaps some level of regulation arguably could have benefitted in a specific area.”

    If the argument against regulation were excluding the financial industry, you might have a point. But what we’re seeing is an attempt to deregulate everything including the financial industry. Having just seen the cost of this, that seems foolish.

    That the pressure to reduce regulation ignores the current reality makes that pressure suspect. It’s not a well-considered and evidence-based approach to improving management; it’s an agenda with a basis in something other than reality.

    …Andrew

  57. POSTED BY Bill Courson  |  September 27, 2011 @ 12:00 pm

    “These bullies are being taught to BE bullies.”

    Truer words were never written.

    The Tea Party scum (oh, sorry: that was insensitive of me. I mean ‘respected members and fellow citizens’) conceive as ‘Tolerance’ as meaning nothing more than “no hitting” and cherish ‘Liberty’ in the sense of “liberty to mouth off insults to whomever they choose.”

    Wake up and smell the blood in the chalice: tolerance of intolerance is NOT tolerance.

    When my ship comes in and I hit the lottery, every gay and lesbian (and otherwise exceptional) kid I know is getting an all-expenses-paid scholarship to marital arts school. When it comes to physical intimidation, a nice, quick poke in the snout is the best cure for homophobia.

  58. POSTED BY mackelvis  |  September 27, 2011 @ 12:03 pm

    Hey Baristanet – anyway to get a comments thread going for the actual topic? Mack

  59. POSTED BY deadeye  |  September 27, 2011 @ 12:24 pm

    Andrew, You can follow that line of thinking right to the soup kitchen.

  60. POSTED BY Martta Rose  |  September 27, 2011 @ 12:26 pm

    The Tea Party scum (oh, sorry: that was insensitive of me. I mean ‘respected members and fellow citizens’) conceive as ‘Tolerance’ as meaning nothing more than “no hitting” and cherish ‘Liberty’ in the sense of “liberty to mouth off insults to whomever they choose.”

    Gee, I am getting warm fuzzies from all the love in the room.

  61. POSTED BY Kristin  |  September 27, 2011 @ 12:26 pm

    herbeverschmel said: “Will there be a session on bullying and discrimination against republicans and conservatives on college campuses?”

    Instead of hijacking a comment thread by misdirecting the topic to (presumably) keep others from having a productive discussion about a posting, I suggest that you don’t wait for someone else to take charge – submit a blog post to Baristanet yourself. You seem quite impassioned about the subject of harassment of Republicans and conservatives.

    For your convenience, here is the link: https://www.baristanet.com/submit/

  62. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  September 27, 2011 @ 12:28 pm

    mack,

    Sorry. As I wrote above, the enforcement of the policy is selective. And since none of these comments are “mean” to Mr. Allen (being “off topic” and “mean” to one of the “writers” here- these writers, unlike, well, professional writers are not used to criticism- is what got me banned for a week).

    So it seems a thread can be hijacked and a policy violated without any fear of banishment.

    Until not.

    Got it?

  63. POSTED BY hollykorus  |  September 27, 2011 @ 1:02 pm

    Mr. Allen- I love that song and sing it often. Hate and anger can cause people to do crazy things.

    Kristin- The other thing people can do is complain about their issue on Facebook. Perhaps they can tweet about it to two followers or go to a competing website and complain about it over and over and over. Then they can come back to Baristanet and complain, harp, kick the dead horse some more….but who would do such an insane thing? And who has that kind of time?

  64. POSTED BY agideon  |  September 27, 2011 @ 1:14 pm

    “Andrew, You can follow that line of thinking right to the soup kitchen.”

    What a well-reasoned argument this is.

    …Andrew

  65. POSTED BY agideon  |  September 27, 2011 @ 3:18 pm

    “These bullies are being taught to BE bullies.”

    Clearly, in the context of this discussion, this is so. People are taught their prejudices. However, there is at least one other form of bullying.

    I’ve a friend that tells a story of something he saw once: a kid became angry because of a correction of some sort from a parent, and was then mean to his little sister. She in turn took it out on her little brother. The little brother shortly thereafter kicked the dog.

    I saw a version of this myself too, once upon a time.

    Kids aren’t great at managing pain (not that adults all excel at this either *grin*). I suppose it is something of a cliche, but I expect that at least some bullying comes from people in pain. This in turn suggests at least the possibility of preventing some bullying before it even occurs.

    …Andrew

  66. POSTED BY johnqp  |  September 27, 2011 @ 3:41 pm

    “..a kid became angry because of a correction of some sort from a parent, and was then mean to his little sister. She in turn took it out on her little brother. The little brother shortly thereafter kicked the dog.”

    And the dog in turn no doubt bit the parent … such is the cycle.

  67. POSTED BY Mrs Martta  |  September 27, 2011 @ 4:59 pm

    No real aurprises here. Bullying, as with other types of behavior both good and bad, is a learned behavior. So, yeah, it makes sense that kids who bully are probably being bullied at home, either by a parent or a sibling. I witnessed this firsthand as a kid. We had a neighborhood bully who was older and bigger than most of the kids on our block. He bullied both boys and girls, basically anyone he deemed to be weaker or smaller than him. One day, I observed an exchange between him and his father (the father was aware I was present). He just laid into this kid with such verbal abuse and humiliation, I actually felt sorry for the kid. Of course, this was back in the 60s before there were any guidance counselors or social workers around to deal with the problem.

  68. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  September 27, 2011 @ 10:07 pm

    This is fun…. And when you are read a tweet from someone with 2 followers that makes you what exactly? And that other site- Patch, I enjoy it because the writing is better. Sorry. It is. Not as vibrant a comment community that’s for sure. But the writers don’t seem to feel as personally attacked by criticism as some here.

    But really Holly. I’m a big boy, you can call me out without me getting so upset that I’d get you banned (I’d be embarrassed to even ask). You can judge me, my work or life– it doesn’t matter to me. I’ve had my work, self and live criticized and even hated by some, and loved by a few more. Regardless, I don’t sweat it. I was trained to know that I cannot allow criticism to get to me.

    You however, did. That was small. That was petty, and really that was below what I would have expected from someone who CHOOSES to put themselves out in such a public way as you and the other here do.

    Can you have it both ways: be so public on a blog, yet wounded by criticism?

    So how about this: you try to not see “mean” in everything I write– and I’ll make a point to try to be nicer. Or even in the words of Brian, be a “positive reader.” Though you must allow me to comment when the writing is unclear, the story muddled or the topic odd, or even old news.

    Deal?

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A great looking building for Montclair Center with appropriate height, massing and details. Bravissimo!

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