Bring It to the Table

BY  |  Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:34pm  |  COMMENTS (69)

https://vimeo.com/40678487

Had enough political mudslinging? Think it might have been nice for the people of Montclair to have actually sat down over the past two months and really discussed the issues facing the town, rather than name-calling?

Well so does Julie Winokur, a Montclair writer and documentary film producer who is using Kickstarter to finance a project called “Bring it to the Table,” which is designed to get people with divergent viewpoints to actually sit down and talk about the issues. The project went live on Kickstarter just a few days ago and has already raised $2,412. Her goal is $30,000 with a deadline of June 18.

Unfortunately it’s a little late for the Turner v. Jackson smackdown that ended Tuesday night. “I wish we were up and running in time to make an impact, because what really struck me was how nasty it got,” Winokur says. “All politics are local. We really could stand to have a forum where our neighbors are able to voice what they believe without being attacked.”

Oh well. But maybe Winokur can get funding in time to make a difference in the upcoming general election in November.

Julie Winoker is bringing it to the table.

Bring it to the Table is a multimedia project that involves a website and video, and the video has a very specific shtick. Winokur actually carries a table out into the field — so far, in Montclair, she’s already brought her table to a local barbershop and the public library — covers it with a star-spangled tablecloth, sits an interview subject down, and gets them to talk about the issues.

It started — as Winokur says in her video — when her 17-year-old son accused her of being the most intolerant person he’d ever met. She was taken aback, but ultimately recognized that she tended to dismiss differing political views, and  thus Bring It to the Table began. “I embarked on this because I realize I wasn’t listening.”

Now she is, and it’s not always easy.  “To do these interviews and not push back is really a challenge,” Winokur says. She’s also learned that — not too surprisingly — centrists are the best listeners. “When people are in the broad center they’re more willing to listen. The ends of the spectrum almost don’t want to engage.”

Want to get involved? Well, Winokur plans to do several more tabletop chats in Montclair. She hasn’t decided where or when, but I’ve suggested the sidewalk across from the abortion clinic on Bloomfield Ave., where anti-abortion protesters gather, as a good place to start. We’ll try to let you know the next time Winokur takes out the table nearby. And you call follow the project on Twitter at @2thetable.

And of course, if you believe in this project and want to help Winokur and crew roll it out nationally in time for the November election, you can pitch in on the Kickstarter campaign. Pledges range from $10 up to $10,000 and awards range from a shout-out on the Bring It’s donor page to “Moderate Zealot” campaign buttons to a hand-sewn star-spangled tablecloth.

It all sounds very cool to us.

69 Comments

  1. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  May 10, 2012 @ 5:00 pm

    I make a point of listening to those who view the world differently than I do, be it either on political or religious lines, or both. It’s just more fun that way, and, as an impatient hedonist, I dig that, man.

    Even my digital pal herbeverschmel knows this to be true. So does my decent and righteous buddy Howard, who, as a Christian evangelical, prays for my soul every now and then, albeit, to no avail.

    If I wanted to live somewhere where all people had the same view of things, I’d move to Borough Park, convert, grow a beard and payyus, wear black coats and beaver hats in the summer and silk stockings and thin slippers in the winter, smoke like a chimney, distrust the entire planet, offer discounts for under the table cash payments, eat religiously sanctioned but grotesque and fattening food on a daily basis until I am a burden on the health care system, dance with other men who look like me at weddings, and force my wife to wear an ugly wig and/or polyester hats in public.

    …perhaps, now, Reb Shloima Gershowitz and the fine and decent Howard ( last name not to be revealed) are both worried about my soul . I wonder if they share this dismal view of my ultimate outcome with folks named Abdul-Mustafa or Ravi-Deva. Or even a fellow American with a unique name like, oh, let’s say, cathar……

  2. POSTED BY cathar  |  May 10, 2012 @ 6:41 pm

    Since I recall you’ve identified yourself as Jewish more than once, Spiro, I can only thus imagine that you couldn’t resist giving us a whiff of the self-hating Jew with your compendium of cliches about the Hasidim below. If I’m wrong about your religion and cultural heritage, however, while I’m sorry, then you merely just sound a mite anti-Semitic today. Perhaps it’s just post-municipal election weariness, then.

    I suggest that Ms. Winokur go to croiagusanam’s place (since I sense he’s an invalid) and draw him out on his rosy view of everyone and everything else. And then to a streetcorner in Paterson on Main Avenue, right by the “Islamic books and gifts” shop where they still see leather-bound editions of the “Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.” (Have you in fact ever leafed through it, Spiro? Or an admiring bio of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, whom Yasser Arafat claimed as “uncle” but as a notorious Jew-hater helped along the Fuehrer by assisting in raising a Muslim division of the Waffen SS to run through Russia and serve in the camps, which you can also get at the same store.)

    But the idea of asking people to help chip in so Winokur an actually accomplish this project, this strikes me as unseemly. It is begging, and it is begging to no apparent solid purpose.

    If I wanted to listen to those who see the world very differently than I do, I could always watch Mika Brerezinski. For your own edification, Spiro, I’d simply suggest you go read either some Donne or Chesterton or, best of all, Thomas a Kempis.

  3. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  May 10, 2012 @ 7:03 pm

    I never did identify myself that way, cathar, and it wouldn’t apply, since I don’t subscribe to any of the Abrahamic faiths. They all have failed. I do, however, know as many Yiddishisms as the next New Yorker, and have friends who are practicing Jews and Christians.

    By the way, cathar, I am as much of a fan of Arafat as you are.

    You might have confused me with the baal-worship you and I light-hartedly discussed at one time or another, or, perhaps, my recounting of a trip to Jerusalem – I got your back up on that one when I relayed to you my experience with the tourguide at the Holy Sepulchre, who mentioned that the streets of Jerusalem ran with blood when the Crusaders came to town. You of course insisted the story couldn’t possibly be true.

    Perhaps today I have just been disgusted by that front page article in the NY Times, the one about the hassidic child-molestation case and especially the subsequent coverup and ostracism the victims have suffered ever since the traumatic event was brought to light. You should be seething, too, cathar, since you are on the the record detesting such things as much as the next guy. But when I retire, I might just check out those books you refer to.

  4. POSTED BY Debbie Galant  |  May 10, 2012 @ 7:43 pm

    I think Kickstarter is great. People who have dreams that need money can got to venture capitalists, angel investors, arts foundations or relatives. Kickstarter is a non-intrusive way to find fellow dreamers. Those not interested, simply need not go to the website.

  5. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  May 10, 2012 @ 7:48 pm

    Kickstarter is really great. I have friends who have financed films and albums this way.

  6. POSTED BY omgmontclair  |  May 10, 2012 @ 9:16 pm

    I can’t believe I am agreeing with Jerseygurl, but this is great. I am going to make a donation (anonymously of course)

  7. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  May 10, 2012 @ 10:03 pm

    Good Lord (or Yahweh, or Allah, or whatever) but you are a crashing bore, cathar. I’m certain that you could clear a room faster than a bomb scare.

    I’m not an invalid, though how typical that you’d make even a “light-hearted” suggestion that I am. And the very idea that you, a crabbed and miserable presence on this site, could opine about anyone else’s “rosy” views is screamingly funny.

    While you’re guiding any poor soul who has been condemned to spend time with you through the “Muslim bookshops” of Paterson, you might very well find that those who admire the Grand Mufti are outnumbered by the sort that would, oh perhaps, infiltrate AQAP and assist the United States in defeating radical Islam.

    But of course a bigot like you would have a hard time with that.

  8. POSTED BY walleroo  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:10 am

    Dear Julie and Debbie, On behalf of the entire Baristanet Community of Tea Partiers, I hereby apologize for leaving you stuck on this thread while the Three Stooges bicker, slap and poke one another in the eyes. Gotta go now and fire up k’starter. What the hell was my password again?

  9. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  May 11, 2012 @ 6:49 am

    Nyuk, nyuk…

  10. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  May 11, 2012 @ 7:41 am

    Slowly I turn, step by step…….

  11. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  May 11, 2012 @ 7:52 am

    I keep thinking I should defiantly respond to walleroo’s post, but I bust out in laughter every time I read it, and give up. Thanks, roo.

  12. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 9:37 am

    The clip seems fun and she seems thoughtful. I’m not sure there is more than a 15 minute video piece in this format, but more power to her.

    The polarization won’t end until political parties see more advantage playing to the middle than the extremes. As we’ve just witnessed, demonization works. Most especially when issues are complex.

  13. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  May 11, 2012 @ 9:49 am

    ROC, I’m worried that I agree with you more and more often lately.

  14. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 9:57 am

    Well I am just to the right of center, gurl.

    One more thing about polarization and demonization. The antidote, the thing that can beat that is authenticity, I think. Of course authenticity can get you into trouble if people don’t like what you authentically are. Romney has little authenticity, he seems totally fake (like John Kerry did) I think it’s his biggest problem. Obama has much more authenticity but people are starting to realize they don’t like the substance.

  15. POSTED BY nickcharles  |  May 11, 2012 @ 10:34 am

    Obama has much more authenticity but people are starting to realize they don’t like the substance.

    I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Obama’s approval rating has been pretty steady for his entire first term, mostly staying just under 50%. And it has ticked up in recent months. The fact that he’s either tied with or ahead of Romney in so many polls is a miracle, considering how terrible the economy is and how high unemployment is.

  16. POSTED BY mari  |  May 11, 2012 @ 10:36 am

    Question – Things were clearly very heated on Baristanet and other sites but did people feel the town was “divided” as they were out at different candidate forums and events? I did not. People clearly disagreed but things seemed pretty civil to me. So I think and hope that some of the comments about the state of the town post election are overstated.

  17. POSTED BY DagT  |  May 11, 2012 @ 10:42 am

    Learning about and understanding others points of view can only help the great divide. I wish her well.

  18. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  May 11, 2012 @ 10:46 am

    Well, Mari. It seems a lot of people here we pro Turner or Susswien. Cary endorsed Susswein. Even Ted Mattox endorsed Turner, not quite what you’d expect if she were actually a Tea Party member. Which she is not, regardless of the smear campaign undoubtedly paid for the the Democrats. (Of which I am one, but I hate corruption and back room politics so I wasn’t voting for their guy, I was voting for who I thought would best serve the town right now, for this term).

    Most of the people I know thought some combination of the slates should win, but almost everyone I know was voting for Carlson and many for Turner too. Then I hear the Mayor say he doesn’t know ONE person who voted for Turner. That’s the Mayor. Either it’s not true, or the town is truly divided.

  19. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:10 am

    Being “close” to the center allows for understanding. If this video just puts ideologue across from each other I fear there’s little to “agree” upon.

    And it’s funny, I never found Obama authentic. He always seems calculated and worried about what others think (I’ve heard some say this is a thread in his TWO biographies). Even with his same-sex “affirmation” ( an odd choice of word) he seemed like he was hedging, calculated and unsure.

    Brian Leher suggested that for such an announcement a Rose Garden speech with a full throated endorsement for Marriage equality as the law of the land, would have been a better choice than a sit-down interview “affirming” his support for “same-sex marriage.” So while it’s easy to second-guess, I think Brian was right.

    As for Romney, I don’t see him as “inauthentic” at all. He’s a rich Mormon, stiff- yes. More “Gee-whiz” and “Golly” than “Wha’sup?” Sure. More straight banker handshake than a fully on “brotha shake/hug.” Youbetcha!!

    He’s corny, but that doesn’t make him inauthentic.

    So it’s (perceived) Cool vs. (real) Corny!!!

  20. POSTED BY Frank Rubacky  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:10 am

    Mari,
    From my perspective, no to the more town divided question.
    I think the level of discourse on the issues was much higher than in the past – by far. I think the internet was decisive factor in this. Bnet & Patch posters were a small and unrepresentative minority, but I suspect there was quite larger & more diverse number of people who read, but did not post. Watercooler was probably the same, but I don’t participate there. It would be interesting if these site owners commented on this aspect.
    As to whether it comments were overstated, the anonymity option allows for more diverse, unfiltered viewpoints to surface. Again, not representative. However, like focus groups which are statistically irrelevant and perishable, these comments can indicate where we should look deeper and explore with greater commitment and balanced representation of all stakeholders.

  21. POSTED BY Frank Rubacky  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:14 am

    And, by the way, the New York Times did Montclair a disservice. The Old Gray Lady is just old when it comes to regional coverage.

  22. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:21 am

    By “Authentic” prof I mean true to themselves, to what they really are.

    Obama is an intellectual elite, Wholefoods liberal with Democratic-Socialist tendencies(a la mainstream European Socialism). When he’s authentic he receives admiration. Take the Gay Marriage issue, does anyone honestly believe for one second he had any real serious problem with Gay Marriage? No. So, he’s damned when he’s inauthentic on the issue (prior to yesterday) and praised when he own’s up to what he actually believes.

  23. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:36 am

    Frank, I completely agree with you on that one.

  24. POSTED BY johnqp  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:42 am

    “Then I hear the Mayor say he doesn’t know ONE person who voted for Turner. That’s the Mayor. Either it’s not true, or the town is truly divided…”

    Or more proof that our current Mayor lives in a bubble. I know plenty of people who voted for the Turner slate.

  25. POSTED BY mari  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:43 am

    Thanks for that assessment Frank. & I agree re: NYT. I was not a Turner person but I think it was in poor taste to weigh in on the eve of the election. To be fair, the article was not flattering to any candidate but the majority was about her & she got no chance to respond. My sense is that her article did more to characterize her as tea party (and create an us vs. them narrative) than anyone on this site or any other campaign. Most people know to take things coming from opposing candidates with a grain of salt, but not from the NYT.

  26. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:45 am

    You know me guys, herb is always very open minded…hahahahhahhahah

  27. POSTED BY butterfly  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:45 am

    ROC wrote: (Obama is)”Wholefoods liberal with Democratic-Socialist tendencies(a la mainstream European Socialism)”

    Let me tell you that few if no Europeans would classify Obama like this. He is considered right-wing Christian-Democratic (not even center but right-wing).

    You might not like to hear this, but the general political main stream spectrum in the States moved so much to the right, its not funny anymore as your comment shows

  28. POSTED BY nickcharles  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:46 am

    Then I hear the Mayor say he doesn’t know ONE person who voted for Turner. That’s the Mayor. Either it’s not true, or the town is truly divided

    It’s both. The mayor’s an obvious, proved liar, AND the town is indeed divided. Jackson got about 50% of the vote, meaning about half of voters didn’t want him as mayor.

  29. POSTED BY nickcharles  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:48 am

    I would love to see the authentic Mitt Romney that prof knows. No one else seems to.

  30. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:50 am

    “Let me tell you that few if no Europeans would classify Obama like this. He is considered right-wing Christian-Democratic (not even center but right-wing).”

    Sure. I was talking about perceptions here in America.

    “You might not like to hear this, but the general political main stream spectrum in the States moved so much to the right”

    I know. Thank God. It’s one of the reasons we’re not Greece. Yet.

  31. POSTED BY whowantwhat  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:50 am

    Agreed ROC, but I think Obama is a little further left of “mainstream socialism” He has other closeted opinions that he cannot possibly express publicly. You don’t think he is 100% for active wealth redistribution in its purest form? He is.

    That aside, we have bigger problems to deal with. I wish we had a candidate who was more interested in and committed to dealing with the termite problem we have in the basement of our house rather than the wolf at the front door. We need real long term fiscal solutions and neither Romney nor Obama will accomplish that.

  32. POSTED BY nickcharles  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:51 am

    To be fair, the article was not flattering to any candidate but the majority was about her & she got no chance to respond.

    Well, it wasn’t fair to Jackson or Susswein because the reporter didn’t even both to talk to them. The story, which I thought originally wasn’t quite as negative for Turner as I think now (clear light of day and all), is just plain embarrassing given the election results.

    Unless you believe (as some do) that the story itself drove liberal voters to cast their ballots against Turner. It’s possible, but I’m not sure I buy it. The party machine would have brought people out anyway, I think.

  33. POSTED BY herbeverschmel  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:51 am

    “Let me tell you that few if no Europeans would classify Obama like this. He is considered right-wing Christian-Democratic (not even center but right-wing)”

    Really? I sit across from Italian, a Turk and a Brit and not one of them describes Maobama the way you do.

  34. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:54 am

    “Unless you believe (as some do) that the story itself drove liberal voters to cast their ballots against Turner. It’s possible, but I’m not sure I buy it.”

    I buy it. The NY Times is very influential in these parts.

  35. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 11:57 am

    “You don’t think he is 100% for active wealth redistribution in its purest form? ”

    Maoist cultural revolution? (is that the “purest” form?) No I don’t.

    I think he’s a redistributionist liberal in, say, the UK Liberal Party sense of the 70’s and 80’s.

    His policies will eventually drive away innovation and capital (much as it was driven away from the UK) in the name of the social safety net. It would have already happened but there isn’t anywhere for the money to go. Yet. Give China, a few years.

  36. POSTED BY nickcharles  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:04 pm

    I think he’s a redistributionist liberal in, say, the UK Liberal Party sense of the 70′s and 80′s.

    A redistributionist liberal who somehow oversees a government where corporations are making record profits even during an economy that has barely recovered? Is he redistributing the money to other rich people?

  37. POSTED BY walleroo  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:06 pm

    Hmmm. Perhaps I’m so accustomed to casting a jaundiced eye at what appears in the NYT (and everything else, truth be told) that I assume everyone else does, too. Still, I think it’s overestimating Zernike to credit her with creating the narrative she used in that story. That narrative emerged from the campaign, in the battle of ideas and perceptions. The Times just bobbed along like a cork.

  38. POSTED BY johnqp  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:09 pm

    “I think he’s a redistributionist liberal in, say, the UK Liberal Party sense of the 70′s and 80′s….”

    Some would beg to differ –

    https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2011/08/05/Obama-The-Covert-Conservative-Liberals-Have-to-Love.aspx#page1

  39. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:11 pm

    RoC, I DO think Obama had a problem with same-sex marriage. So while I think your description of him is correct (though-I-prefer-hyphenates-when-stringing-together-attributes), you cannot forget he’s Black.

    And sadly, a majority of Black folks* are still against same-sex marriage. Moreover, I can’t imagine him sitting in the good Rev. Wright’s Church all those years with feelings of solidarity with his gay brothers and sisters.

    I think he was “cool” with gay folks. But marriage? No. I believe his “evolving” stuff was real. Remember, despite his position in the world, he knows he’s Black first, everything else second.

    (This story from BET states: “Black voters in North Carolina, a key battleground state, voted by two to one for an amendment that bans same-sex marriage and nullifies the rights of gay partners.” https://www.bet.com/news/features/vote-2012/news/politics/2012/05/10/will-same-sex-marriage-divide-obama-and-black-voters.html)

  40. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:17 pm

    “The Times just bobbed along like a cork.”

    Is that some kind of excuse? She was painted as a Tea Party member. Based on what? What the opposition said? She let the opposition define her. Zernike was happy to play along because it fit her world view. Did she “bob along” with other narratives which emerged? Or just the negative ones about Turner? Why is that? Jackson is a developer accepting contributions from other developers. He alleged racism against his opponents. These narratives “emerged” too. I don’t see much difference in saying a reporter selectively reported the narrative they liked, from selectively bobbing along or “reporting narratives that emerge”. Except that the latter is the pat excuse always heard from biased reporters.

  41. POSTED BY bebopgun  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:18 pm

    And it was just a coincidence Obama evolved just when stories came out he was raking in contributions from Hollywood. Looks like good politics to me.

  42. POSTED BY mike 91  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:26 pm

    His policies will eventually drive away innovation and capital (much as it was driven away from the UK) in the name of the social safety net. It would have already happened but there isn’t anywhere for the money to go. Yet. Give China, a few years.

    Making sure the tax code is as progressive as it has been historically does not make one a “redistributionist liberal.” His justification isn’t even philsophy, the only way to address the deficit is if we increase revenues and cut spending. One side of the ledger is not going to get it done.

    He has offered to cut the social safety net in return. Somehow he got Democrats in Congress to approve record cuts during the debt ceiling debate’ Speaker Boehner just couldn’t get his side to go along with the tax increases.

  43. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:28 pm

    (What about those first 2 years with a Democratic House and Senate, Mike91?)

  44. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:32 pm

    (that Bloomberg story is 20 minutes old)

  45. POSTED BY nickcharles  |  May 11, 2012 @ 12:55 pm

    What taxes is he avoiding now that he wouldn’t have had to pay when Bush Jr. was president?

  46. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:09 pm

    I think poor Saverin is just mad ’cause Zuckenberg’s got the fame and money, and the kid who played him (Saverin) in the “Social Network” is the new Spiderman.

    What’d Saverin get? Singapore!!

    Well at least he’s not a Winklevae!!

  47. POSTED BY walleroo  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:16 pm

    These narratives “emerged” too.

    Nobody likes chaos, it’s disturbing. A street fight looks like chaos until one voice is heard above the others, and the crowd begins to stampede.

    There are alternative narratives, ROC, and some of them may even be true. But the one that stuck, the one most people saw, was the one the NYT reporter wrote–revolt of the greedy elites.

    It should be plain to anybody who is paying attention that that narrative was a piss poor explanation of what was going on. So what’s a better one? And how long does it take to tell it? And does it sit comfortably with people’s perception of themselves and of politics? Does it sit comfortably with the prevailing attitudes at the NYT? Does it fit Zernike’s view of the world? I would guess not. If nobody is buying a story it’s not a sellable one. That’s why the second day story was a dull recitation of facts. (Ooops! Never mind! Don’t look back!)

  48. POSTED BY whowantwhat  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:18 pm

    “A redistributionist liberal who somehow oversees a government where corporations are making record profits even during an economy that has barely recovered? Is he redistributing the money to other rich people?”

    I am talking about who he is at heart.

    Either way, we don’t live in a land equal outcomes, only equal opportunity. I have a problem with trying to normalize outcomes.

  49. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:21 pm

    “What taxes is he avoiding now that he wouldn’t have had to pay when Bush Jr. was president?’

    Perhaps that’s why Saverin’s a billionaire and you and I are not, Nick? The wise protector of his own hard earned capital seeks to act proactively to protect his earnings.

    You’ve perhaps heard of Obama’s desire to increase rate of tax on capital gains and dividends?

    Here’s more:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-01/wealthy-americans-queue-to-give-up-passports-in-swiss-capital.html

    Renunciations are up 8 fold since 2008.

    Look for the numbers to drastically increase as Obama enacts his vision for the country.

  50. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:23 pm

    So walleroo, journalism at the NYT is reduced to “telling people what they want to hear”? Perhaps that should go on the masthead.

  51. POSTED BY nickcharles  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:26 pm

    I’m not questioning that this guy will make more money this way — obviously — that’s why he’s doing it. I’m just pointing out that Obama hasn’t done anything to hurt this guy’s payout. Whatever taxes he’d pay next week, he would have paid five years ago.

    The “but what what Obama WILL do” defense is akin to those gun freaks who are stockpiling weapons and ammo because they just KNOW Obama will come after them soon. I thought it was obvious by now that Obama policies have not hurt billionaires one bit, and they likely won’t ever.

  52. POSTED BY mike 91  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:29 pm

    Renunciations are up 8 fold since 2008.

    Look for the numbers to drastically increase as Obama enacts his vision for the country.

    Read your own article ROC. Renunciations are up in Switzerland because of a combination of a case against UBS and the fact that our government taxes our citizens no matter where they reside (which has been true since the civil war). There is nothing in the story saying that these have risen because of Obama taxes. But you keep spinning it any way you want.

  53. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:36 pm

    When a drunken bus driver relieves the current bus driver, I’m inclined to get off even before much has happened.

    And with A President all to eager to rule by fiat:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/us/politics/shift-on-executive-powers-let-obama-bypass-congress.html?pagewanted=all

    I can understand the impulse to protect one’s earnings.

    Innovators once sought to come to America, now they flee. Whomever you wish to blame for that, Obama’s policies are not going to stem the tide. His policies will do the opposite.

  54. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:37 pm

    ROC, Inthink the reporter told a story that was self serving and that she probably believed to be true. But it could’ve just as easily been a narrative about the county party backing a candidate living in the estate section with a pro- union slate that was being callenged by PTA moms. The mom slate included the son of Olympia Dukakis, who currently works for NBC.

  55. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:38 pm

    That’s MSNBC. Thumbs on a bus.

  56. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:39 pm

    The Swiss are seeing an increase in renounced passports as well.

    Why, Michelle Bachman just gave back hers!

  57. POSTED BY nickcharles  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:42 pm

    So the drunken bus driver in your analogy is NOT the one who was driving when the economy crashed so thoroughly we haven’t recovered? ;=)

  58. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:44 pm

    p.s.

    “The “but what what Obama WILL do” defense is akin to those gun freaks who are stockpiling weapons and ammo because they just KNOW Obama will come after them soon. ”

    Obama hasn’t said he’d come after guns.

    He’s said over and over again he wants to tax the rich. It’s the centerpiece of how Democrats think we’ll solve our economic woes. Most of the Baristanet posters (I think even you) cheer loudly every time you hear it.

    I trust Obama and the Democrats at their word. I think they will drastically increase taxes on the “rich” (earners over 200k).

    Can’t blame people for believing what you say.

  59. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:47 pm

    I’m just waiting for the part of the argument where “we become Greece”.

    Soon, the flood of “innovators” rushing out of the US will catapult Bulgaria to world prominence.

  60. POSTED BY nickcharles  |  May 11, 2012 @ 1:55 pm

    Obama hasn’t said he’d come after guns. He’s said over and over again he wants to tax the rich.

    That’s a fair point. I still don’t agree, because I’m not a fan of creating public policy based on the whims of whiny billionaires who threaten to take their toys and go home if they don’t get what they want.

  61. POSTED BY Right of Center  |  May 11, 2012 @ 2:05 pm

    “I’m not a fan of creating public policy based on the whims of whiny billionaires who threaten to take their toys and go home if they don’t get what they want.”

    Fair enough. We don’t need their capital! Screw them! After all, the UK didn’t.

    Power to the 99%!

  62. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  May 11, 2012 @ 2:07 pm

    Plenty of billionaires in the UK, ROC.

    Some of them arent’t even royals!

  63. POSTED BY butterfly  |  May 11, 2012 @ 2:19 pm

    @herbe

    “Really? I sit across from Italian, a Turk and a Brit and not one of them describes Maobama the way you do.”

    I also would never disagree with you face to face

  64. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  May 11, 2012 @ 2:46 pm

    herb, your buddies may agree with some of your views, but I doubt the Italian, the Turk or the Brit use the name Maobama. Mostly because it makes zero sense.

  65. POSTED BY algb  |  May 11, 2012 @ 3:31 pm

    The “but what what Obama WILL do” defense is akin to those gun freaks who are stockpiling weapons and ammo because they just KNOW Obama will come after them soon.

    Hey Bicky D. 450 million rounds stockpiled by the HSA gun freaks?Do they know what Obama WILL do?

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/atk-secures-40-caliber-ammunition-contract-with-department-of-homeland-security-us-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-dhs-ice-2012-03-12

  66. POSTED BY whowantwhat  |  May 11, 2012 @ 4:20 pm

    I don’t really take issue with anything Obama has done because he really hasn’t done anything. We need two things to happen and number 2 is more important.

    1) Let Bush tax cuts expire for everyone. Raise capital gains tax (not sure what the correct rate is, but it can go up.

    2) Reduce military spending and completely restructure entitlements, need some painful cuts here.

    Forget about the wolf at the door we have a termite problem that is a much bigger issue.

  67. POSTED BY sheepy  |  May 11, 2012 @ 6:20 pm

    Turner and Zorich brought the issue of race into our elections. That is why their entire slate is now on the sidelines.

  68. POSTED BY sophomore  |  May 12, 2012 @ 7:18 pm

    “POSTED BY sheepy: “Turner and Zorich brought the issue of race into our elections. That is why their entire slate is now on the sidelines.”

    Um… please explain where that happened??

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